With over 25 years of experience in the recruiting business, Jen has spent the last 11 years running her own SaaS recruiting firm. Her recruiting style is a reflection of her agency experience and her internal recruiting and leadership role with a F1000 company. Jen knows how to source great talent without posting ads and conducts thorough interviews with candidates to ensure that she is only submitting a handful of the best talent in the market.
When Jen isn’t recruiting Sales, Marketing and Managers for her software start-up clients you can find her outdoors with her family and black lab hiking, boating, skiing, fly-fishing, camping or finding new adventures in Folsom, CA where she’s based in Northern California.
Check out the full transcript from the tenth episode of the TechGuide podcast, featuring an interview with Jen Doskow.
Ryan Atkinson: [00:00:00] Welcome, Jennifer. Super excited to have you.
Jen Doskow: Super excited to be here.
Ryan Atkinson: Before we get started with everything, we have to ask our kickoff question.
Work-life balance is super important. So I’m curious, how do you de-stress from a long, stressful day of sales recruiting?
Jen Doskow: Gosh. I love taking my black lab for a long four mile walk. That’s probably my best. And if you ask me, I. Five years ago I was probably pouring myself a nice big glass of, of wine, but I’ve, I find walking my dog is a little healthier these days.
Ryan Atkinson: I like the character development there of, to walk your dog, which sounds like an awesome night.
Jen Doskow: Sometimes the neighbors invite me in for a glass of wine as, as long as I’m not the tail end, we’re fine.
Ryan Atkinson: I love that. And you have over 22 years of recruiting sales talent. Uh, I think that is phenomenal cuz sales, I I think in just personal experience has like really taken off like the past 10 years.
Maybe not though. So I’m just curious from those 22 years how has the selling role changed and how you recruit?
Jen Doskow: Well, the sales roles have completely changed. Yeah. In the sense that way back when, when I recruited, you started off in inside sales and promoted into outside sales.
And now, because I now specifically just recruit SaaS, recruit SaaS professionals, I actually see a lot of people that have a long career in outside sales, but now we’re going inside sales because of just the way the technology is delivered. So, so yeah, the way that I found my candidates when it was, you know, pre LinkedIn, pre, you know, monster and, and Career Builder was actually like going into Nordstrom and just talking to people and poaching people and going to job fairs and having to feel like you need to bathe in antibacterial at the end.
And now all of my recruiting is more sharp [00:02:00] shooting. Finding the people I want to go after on online and, and, uh, creating really great messaging and enticing them to get on the telephone with me and, and seeing if they’re fit. So it’s, it’s definitely changed a lot. I don’t delete my home office very often to go to Nordstrom and coach people because all my candidates I place are, are all in different parts of the country.
Ryan Atkinson: That’s awesome. And you are in SaaS sales, which I think is probably, if you’re gonna talk about some sort of sales role, it’s. Definitely SaaS sales. That’s the hottest right now. Um, so can we start at the very, very basic level of what does someone in tech sales slash SaaS sales, what do they do?
Jen Doskow: So depending on the level someone in SaaS software is a service.
You know, Depends on the company, depends on the way it’s if the company is specifically SaaS or possibly they have on-premise software. Yes. Which old school loading things into a server or into your computer. Right Back when, when we needed updates. Um, there still are companies out there, especially in the FinTech world, that, that still need on-premise software for security measures.
Then there are companies that just. Pop up because the delivery is so easy. And, and basically sales reps are there from an entry level standpoint as sales development reps or BDRs or SDRs. They’re called a variety of different things. And they are basically out there hustling, doing the research, making the, the cold outreach via email, via phone call.
And then once they’re qualified leads and they get a good one on the line, I use a lot of fishing references. Then it is. Introduced to , the prospect is introduced to the sales rep, and the sales rep then does a discovery call, finds out the company’s needs, you know, re introduces the company.
That they’re selling for and takes them through the process. That can be a very short one to two call flows, or it could be a year to [00:04:00] three years, just depending on the level, the cost and the type of solution, how many decision makers need to be part of it. Then from there, it’s typically passed on to customer success or account management and sales engineer.
So it’s a very collaborative effort in the SaaS world, it’s. It’s, um, it’s pretty complex, but companies that do it right have a really solid value proposition and a great team where it’s kinda like handing off a baton from one stage to the next.
Ryan Atkinson: Yeah, and that’s what I love. That was a really thorough, from basically the opening to like the closing of like what a BDR does to like your customer success.
And I know you work with a lot of like emerging SaaS companies to hire tech talent. So, I’m assuming emerging SaaS companies are a lot different than these huge corporations. And if it That is true. Can you talk about that and what do these fasting startups really look for in a sales hire?
Jen Doskow: That’s a great question. So, I spent some time with the Fortune 1000 company and it was at that moment, after five years of banging my head against the wall trying to get things to happen that I decided I am more into startups and I wanna work directly with the decision makers and not have to go through a ton of internal recruiting or bureaucracy, as we call it, different levels.
You know, the smaller companies tend to need more help and assistance, and I’m able to be a really great, um, partner to them instead of just their outside recruiter. So I, I help them, like one of your other guests was just describing, you know, develop their job description and educate the client on the marketplace.
And that’s really fun and, and it, it’s, it makes me feel really valuable at the end of the day. With the big companies, they have a playbook that is so large Yeah. And, and, and intense that oftentimes it, there doesn’t, it doesn’t leave a lot of room for opportunity [00:06:00] to place someone that doesn’t just fit all, check all the boxes.
Um, and I, I would say another thing that comes to mind, You know, startups want people, they look at their sales reps to be their future leaders. There’s a lot more exposure when you work for a, a high growth company because there’s less layers between you and the CEO or the VP of sales or whoever, which is great if you wanna hustle and make an impact and think outta the box, and especially wear a lot of hats.
I know those terms are thrown around a lot, but at the end of the day, that’s what everyone’s looking for. Yeah. So high level of. Emotional intelligence is really key for startups versus just like someone to work the playbook. And then also within that emotional intelligence, something that really keyed in on people with emo high level of intellectual curiosity.
Cause SaaS is constantly changing and shifting. Yeah. And the way it looks today will not be the way it looks two weeks from an at most likely.
Ryan Atkinson: Interesting. So it sounds like if you are gonna work, if you want to be, oh, I’m, I’m gonna go in sales and I want to go work for a startup, it sounds like a lot of exposure or I’ll, I’ll give you the question.
What. What are the benefits of working for a SaaS or a startup in a sales role? Because it sounds like, oh, I’m gonna be exposed to the c e O, but like I have a cool to carrying role here. So like what are the benefits of working for a SaaS startup in a sales role?
Jen Doskow: Well, I mean, to answer that, I’d love to take a step back and say why you shouldn’t start with a startup.
Ryan Atkinson: That’s fair.
Jen Doskow: But yeah, let’s start there because I personally don’t think that’s a great way to go. And the reason for that is kind of what I just spoke about. You wanna go to a company with a really thorough training program right out of the gates. And so oftentimes startups that don’t have a lot of structure already, they’re not gonna have the training, the tools, the development.
They may have a manager, you may have a manager that’s also competing with you and selling. Mm-hmm. I mean, that’s kind of, that’s what a lot of bootstrap [00:08:00] startups look like in the beginning. So I typically recommend that you go to a company where, They have a solid training program where you can save your documentation, you can have some rigorous metrics, and you know, your first job outta school.
That’s when you have the energy to, to really dive in, work really hard, you know, burn the midnight oil if you have to. Mm-hmm. Because this is, this is when you wanna work hard. This is when you’re gonna accelerate your career. Then what happens with these large companies is traditionally they, they don’t promote from within.
A lot of times, and that’s when I like to find these people. So I get a little bird in my ear that says, Hey, this company with all these kids that are hustling, they just brought in a manager from their competitor, and now everyone’s disgruntled. Well, I find all these people make friends, find out if they’re willing to listen to new opportunities, and now I can place them in a role where they don’t have to stay for five years to get that promotion.
They’re gonna be promoted based on their merit. Yep. And based on what they bring to the table, instead of their, uh, amount of years of experience.
Ryan Atkinson: Yeah. And I think that really hits on the psyche of someone that is in sales is they wanna be promoted fast. Like they’re not there to just, oh my God, you just brought in competitor.
Oh, I think I’ll wait another two years. Right. And I wanna ask that question. Can you take us into the psyche of someone that is in sales, say, cuz salespeople are like, that’s a hard job to do. So can you take us into, okay, I wanna get into a sales role someday, but I don’t know if it’s a fit for me.
What should I be considering mentally if this is the job for me?
Jen Doskow: So I often ask people when they are deciding what they wanna do, like why sales? If they come to me, they’re referred why sales? And if people say, oh, I love people, I love talking to people. I’m like, that is the worst reason to go in sales.
I know it’s what people think, but in reality, people who sh who go into sales are really self-driven and really motivated and they want to promote quickly. They [00:10:00] wanna make money based on. What, how much skin they have in the game instead of how much someone is going to tell them that they’re worth. Um, salespeople typically are very type A.
They wanna get better and better. They wanna learn. And you know, that’s not saying that people who aren’t in sales are, are second class or anything, but man sales is hard. It’s a ton of rejection. Those people that get in sales, cuz they like people, they are not gonna like people after the first month of rejection.
You know, you have to have some really thick skin and be very competitive and, and that’s really how sales leaders tend to set up the sales environment. Plus hopefully, really juicy compensation plans for all that hard work they do.
Ryan Atkinson: Yeah. So someone’s listening to the same, I’d be like, yes, I’m self-driven.
I’m competitive. I’m motivated by money. Like yes, yes, yes. Let me get into tech sales entry level role. How would you advise someone to get into tech sales first job outta college.
Jen Doskow: First job outta college. Super easy. Go to a company, hopefully locally. I know a lot of people say remote man, you just came outta school.
These are the people you wanna be having happy hours with. Learn from ha have high fives and contests. I mean, the, the day of of, you know, kegs in the office, those are not over. Like take advantage of being entry level and learning a lot and, and go to a company or move to a city, you know, that like Chicago, let’s say with, with Salesforce, that still is hiring entry level people and giving great training.
Sdr BDR roles is where you’re going to have the most opportunities and you’re gonna learn how to prospect and you’re going to hopefully get the opportunity to promote. It’s the one question I think you really need to ask and you need to evaluate is how, what percentage of their people are promoted out the SDR role, because it’s not a great position to get stuck in.
Unfortunately, I see people who leave one company go [00:12:00] to another S D R role where they think they can get promoted. Now they’ve been there a year, now they have two years of S D R experience and meanwhile, their friend that chose a different path with a different company in SD R role was in there for six months, and now is closing deals, making six figures.
Ryan Atkinson: Yep. So what are those questions that you ask to un to uncover that? Is it simply what’s the percentage of people that get promoted within 12 months? Or what questions do you advise people to ask? Yeah,
Jen Doskow: I would definitely talk about, I would ask questions about expectations mm-hmm. From the company to the, to the sales rep.
What are the metrics? What are the quotas? What percentage of their people are promoted and those that aren’t promoted? What are the biggest reasons why? I would also find out in 12 month period what their turnover is, what that rate is and why, and keep digging in. And, and what that’s going to do is.
Give you an idea, a clear idea of the path that you’re gonna be on, but it also is going to show off your sales skills because the more you probe, that’s really what you’re gonna be doing in that role anyway, is discovering and probing and uncovering needs. So I would say a, a real key thing in an interview as well is to find someone that’s currently on the team.
Mm. If they’re not part of the interview process, find someone on LinkedIn. Introduce yourself. Say you’re in the interviewing with 13, can you get on the telephone and ask ’em some questions and you’re gonna get a load of information that way. Find out what they like, what they don’t like, what their managers like.
Are they on the track to promote? How many of their peers have they seen promote? Because in this day and age, you’d love to take everyone’s word as as accurate, but. Unfortunately there’s a lot of smoke and mirrors and especially with SDRs, that, you know, people think well, they have no experience. They don’t know what to ask.
Don’t get stuck in that.
Ryan Atkinson: Yeah, absolutely. And when you are thinking about that I wanna hit on the two points of quota and promotion. What’s [00:14:00] a good like quota percentage that in sdr org hits? And then two, what would be a good promotion path to like an AE closing role? Like how many, oh
Jen Doskow: gosh. The quotas can be, it just, just really depends on the value of the solution they’re selling.
If it’s $30 a month, then that’s going to be a much easier deal, and they may have to submit 10 qualified leads a day. Mm-hmm. Whereas if you are with an enterprise, Level sale, that’s a hundred thousand dollars for a year, let’s say. You may just be responsible for one to two qualified leads a month.
It’s just the spectrum is very wide. The logical promotion path from an S D R is traditionally into an SM b small medium business role, then a mid-market role, then an enterprise role. Just putting it really simply, and with all those roles, the sales process gets longer. And the dollar size gets larger, and also the amount of stakeholders or decision makers that you have to sell to in the process gets wider.
So I never recommend an SDR go directly into enterprise sales. Yeah, it happens every once in a while, but man, you’re gonna be pretty stressed because there are skills that you have to learn with every different sales process,
Ryan Atkinson: complexity. Yeah, and I can speak to that from firsthand experience cuz when I was with HubSpot as an SD r bdr I was in the enterprise sales division.
You learn a lot, great training program like you talked about, but it is a very difficult role and you’ll be very stressed doing it, but you learn a lot, which take it how you want it.
Jen Doskow: And were you, were you part of an inside sales group? Yep,
Ryan Atkinson: I was part of an inside sales group.
Jen Doskow: Yeah. So you worked with your, your peers.
Ryan Atkinson: Yep. Yep. I was in office in Boston,
Jen Doskow: So you could lament, you could high five, you could celebrate. I mean, that’s, I, I really think that that’s the best. Case situation. It doesn’t have to be a sales force. I just threw that out. But HubSpot’s a major leader in the [00:16:00] space. I, I just think if it’s a brand that people know that’s going to make your resume golden mm-hmm.
Versus a no name acronym, you know, and Folsom, California, where I live that no one knows of. And then you have to kind of sell the company and your experience and your quota attainment. Take the selling the company part out of it if it, that’s why going to a big brand typically is gonna be key.
Ryan Atkinson: That’s a great point.
That is a really, really good point that I’ll emphasize. Double expedition point that one. Everyone. Thank you. I do wanna talk about it. So you get into tech sales. I’m loving it. This is awesome. I’m curious, what makes a good salesperson stand out? Is it because they have a lot of product knowledge about what they’re selling?
Is it their interpersonal skills? Is it strong business acumen? Which one do you think matters the most?
Jen Doskow: To who? To me or to a hiring manager to be successful in a Salesforce. Oh, to be successful.
I think it goes back to the emotional intelligence and the drive. I think it’s mostly intangible. Yeah. Cuz everything else falls within that. Business acumen and quota attainment. Yeah. So I think at the top you have to really be. You have to bring your egg in. You have to be a really self-motivated person that traditionally is very positive that yeah.
And is likable and that has, has thick skin and, and people are gonna wanna work with people wanna work with people they like. At the end of the day, you know, and if you don’t like people and if you don’t, yourself being the best that you can be, you know, instead of taking that bottle of line after work, you take your dog for a walk.
I mean, you, you want to really bring your A game and that’s what’s gonna keep you consistent and a quota attainment and continue to, to grow your career in, in sales, maybe even to a C R O, chief Revenue Officer or a VP of sales or.[00:18:00] You know, board member of other startups, there’s just really wide varieties of, of opportunities.
Ryan Atkinson: Yeah. And I think there’s like a lot of opportunities to like, get in sales as a whole. And I wanna talk about a LinkedIn post you actually had today. Cause I thought this was really interesting about sales boot camps and like certifications. As a hiring like manager recruiter how do you approach it?
I, I personally have not heard a whole lot about sales camps and like boot camps, so I’m curious like, are these things like legit.
Jen Doskow: You’re, that’s why I asked. I dunno. I know that there’s a lot of them out there that are selling a lot of recent college grads on their boot camps, and they come to me and they say, well, I don’t have any experience, but I have this boot camp.
Yeah. I can 1000% tell you. I’ve never has seen a job description that has a bootcamp requirement on it. Interesting. I can tell you that there are job, most job descriptions have a minimum amount of experience, prospecting, consulting, selling, closing, whatever. I haven’t seen the boot camps, but you know, I think that no one will ever take away your education.
Yeah. And if it’s a bootcamp for a certification and you get something out of it, then that’s great. I don’t, I’m still trying to figure out if that is viable. Mm-hmm. I don’t, I can guarantee it’s not a viable exchange for the experience. Um, if you get the experience at the bootcamp, if you are prospecting, then that’s great.
I have seen some of them out there that actually have them prospect as a BDR would and pass along those leads. And then those are people that are, are actually. Placed into those companies. I have seen boot camps that have a really cool model like that. I kind of wish I would’ve thought of it, but, um, I think right now so many people let that are on the market.
I think we’re gonna see more of these boot [00:20:00] camps and, and people really selling, people are selling people on the market about, just about everything right now. Boot camps and certifications. We will see, we, we shall see if they become the, maybe they’re the next best thing.
Ryan Atkinson: Yeah. And if from your perspective, um, let’s just say they d like they, they don’t have a bootcamp, but they wanna break into tech sales or tech sales, what are some like complimentary roles that they can get real world experience that are easily transferrable to tech sales?
Jen Doskow: Easily transferrable that aren’t specific, specifically tech based? Anything? Well, I, internet is like Yelp. I used to recruit a lot of SDRs out of Yelp, which I don’t think is a very technical solution. It’s not, it’s advertising. So advertising is is one place. Paychecks, a d p. Mm-hmm. Those are payroll services, but they are pretty tech based now and a very similar model.
You know, anything intangible media air, I mean, selling air is just about the hardest thing out there. Air in fundraising. I mean, if I can get someone. If, if I have a, a ton of SDR openings and I find someone with all the intangibles and they’ve been selling something impossible, like air on a media station or media I typically, if I have a solid relationship with the business the business leader, I can typically request 20 minutes of their time to just make sure that they’re not missing out on great talent.
Because at the end of the day, experience is a great thing and it’s measurable. But it comes down to the person. Yeah. And, and sometimes, you know, like the example I gave you of my Olympian that we both know Yeah. Jamie, he, he had no tech experience and I said, listen, just give him 20 minutes. I promise you you’ll love him.
And he ends up opening up a London office for him. And I mean, he crushed all these things. And, and you know, it’s, it’s so funny cuz I [00:22:00] can call him any day and, and he’s like, yeah, you got me in tech sales, like, God, that was 15 years ago.
Ryan Atkinson: that’s I think that’s awesome. And I, that like really hits on another point with Jamie specifically.
I wanted to ask about a successful placement like you’ve made and what made that candidate stand out. So can you give us an example of a successful placement you’ve had? Is it Jamie? Does anyone else stand out? And then can you just share like what stood out from that person?
Jen Doskow: Yeah, so. I would say Jamie is definitely a great example.
Another one that comes to mind is Joe. And Joe went to Sonoma State, which is a, you know, just basic state school here in California, in the wine country. Mm-hmm. And he sold for CTOs, so definitely not technical. Mm-hmm. But I met this guy, he was referred to me and my. I, I say my hair blew back. It didn’t really, I swear.
But I mean, the guy was so articulate and charismatic and he just gave me this surge of energy over the telephone. This was before Zoom? Yeah. When I used to just deal with the telephone, which is nice. That’s a whole nother story. But no one wanted to see him because he didn’t have tech experience.
We begged and begged and begged, uh, this client, and I was like, I will p I will pay you if you do not like this guy. Like, I’ll, I’ll send you and your wife out to $500 dinner. That’s how, yeah. Yeah. So anyway, he’s hired, he broke every record at his first SAS company, which was Blue Jeans, which Verizon since has bought.
And Joe called me a year ago and said, Hey, I don’t know if you remember me. I’m now VP of sales with a company called Sauce Labs, and I wanna repay the favor and I want you to recruit for us. Love you. That’s so cool. Yeah. And he’s just, he really is. I, I, it’s hard to even pin it, but when you talk to this guy, you’re like, you [00:24:00] are special.
You are the one percenter. And so, I mean, as a header, those are the people that I’m gonna charge a fee for. Are those, those people that really stand out and are great listeners, great communicators, they get you excited and they have, they have a great story to tell. Storytelling is huge, even when you’re not in marketing.
You know, sales reps have to have a great story and they have to really show that they can stand out above, above the rest and not just go into sales. Cuz they like to talk at people.
Ryan Atkinson: Yeah. And so what that really was was like, he was really charismatic. He gave like great energy over phone and like the storytelling were three characteristics that like really stood out to you.
Jen Doskow: Yeah. Yeah. He was just, I, I mean it really is, it’s, I think for any of your listeners when you meet people that just really stand out Yeah. They have that it factor. Yeah. Those are the people that I will put my career. I will, I will bet my money on every single time. You just, you know, the successful people.
And maybe that’s why I’ve been recruiting for 20 some odd years cuz I, I have keyed in what that successful persona is. It’s very difficult to fake. Yeah. But I, I believe that if you really. Develop yourself. Read a lot, learn from mentors, listen to great podcasts and, and really try and develop yourself from an intellectual curiosity point of view.
You’ll get there with some maturity and, and probably some, some challenges and some, some failures along the way, but it’s all, that’s why sales is so fun. It’s all character building throughout your entire career.
Ryan Atkinson: Yeah. And that’s why I, I like, there’s always that sales. I mean, because like that’s the people at HubSpot, everyone was like, oh, like I’m committed to like self-learning.
Like it’s just a cont contagious atmosphere, right? And I think you get that across sales organizations, which is really, really neat.
Jen Doskow: Okay. What other career is there that you can walk into a [00:26:00] Barnes and Nobles or go on Amazon right now and basically educate yourself on all these different. Selling techniques.
Yeah. You know, you don’t, you, you can give yourself a master’s in sales by just reading and listening to podcasts. In my true opinion. And, and, and learning from really solid mentors and reaching out and finding mentors. Yeah.
Ryan Atkinson: Well, of course, now I have to ask the question cause I love reading. What books would you recommend to someone that wants to succeed in sales?
Jen Doskow: Oh gosh. I have a really fun one. It’s on my bookshelf. The comfort crisis. Okay. Is a book I recently read and it will take you out of your comfort zone. You know, I mean, it is a lot. It’s a book I will read once a year. It’s not specifically for sales, but it’s about putting yourself in situations that are not comfortable.
And, and having self growth. So, I don’t know, maybe that sounds too cheesy, but I think that that’s a book I would recommend Challenger Sale. Yep. Is really very I, I would say learn the, learn the Challenger Sale Model and the, the names of the personas, because they’ll come up in interviews quite frequently.
If you could get one book, probably the Challenger Sale.
Ryan Atkinson: I like that. And we’re winding down on timing here, but a question did pop up earlier. Uh, we’ve talked about a lot about like having like a great person, not like a great personality, like a driven personality, but also like hitting your metrics from like a quota perspective.
So take me through like a sales recruiting perspective. Let’s just say you get a candidate that hits quota, like, I don’t know what a number is, like 80% of the time, but they’re like, I I 80% of the time, but they’re like great qualities. Like this person can really do it. How do you evaluate that?
Jen Doskow: It’s tough to place someone who only hits their quota 80% of the time. Yeah. And the reason for that is because my clients pay me a fee. Mm-hmm. And they’re, they’re gonna [00:28:00] wanna pay a fee for someone who consistently achieves their quota. Yep. And those are typically the people that I would weed out in my first or second round of my own selection process.
You know, if, if they are an 80 percenter, I coach them, I’ll send them to, I’ll give ’em as, as much cheerleading as possible. But at the end of the day, I can’t place an 80 percenter unless there are circumstances outside of their control. If the product doesn’t work, for example, mm. And maybe they had a, you know, crush quota with previous companies, then maybe that’s something to look at.
But, Most of nine times outta 10. I can’t place an 80 percenter.
Ryan Atkinson: That’s bad, unfortunately. What’s like the bare minimum? Do you bare minimum at the right term? What’s like the lowest you would go? Like 95% and it’s like, well this person is great or is it like a hundred percent, like that’s where you need to be at.
Jen Doskow: I would say 95 is probably.
Ryan Atkinson: That’s amazing.
Jen Doskow: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I’ve required a lot of my sales candidates, they have to have documentation. Now, this is for like enterprise level or mid market, not for SDRs. SDRs, you know, for, for the people that, that are more entry level in their career, it’s gonna come down to their personality and gonna come down to some, some great storytelling about what separates them from their peers.
But once you get more experience, Then it’s going to be okay. Where do you rank? Okay, so let’s say they’re only 80%, but they’re ranked number one on their team. That also is a situation where I would, I would submit them and, and if they have documentation and great references on their LinkedIn.
Ryan Atkinson: That’s awesome.
I really like that. And I wanna talk one more question as we wind down time here. You talked a little bit about storytelling. Is there a framework that you use for storytelling, storytelling technique that candidates can use to explain like their sales career? Or how would you coach that?
Jen Doskow: So, um, one of my very favorite interviewers, a client that I’ve worked with now with three of his [00:30:00] startups he starts every interview by saying, listen, put your resume down.
Just tell me about you and what makes you tick. Like he has a more eloquent way of saying it, but what’s your why? What’s your why? Basically, And I think that if people can master that open-ended question and walk through a two minute, let’s say elevator pitch on what motivates them, why they, why they have made the decisions that they have and what they’re looking for next, and maybe something interesting about themselves.
If it’s anything like. Our friend Jamie being an Olympian, maybe they have our marathon runner. Maybe they’re super committed to some other aspect of their life and they, you know, started a charity event. Something that’s different than what every other recent college graduate or 30 year old has done is going to be really important to that cuz that’s what’s gonna stand out and that is really gonna set the tone for the rest of the interview.
Ryan Atkinson: That’s awesome. Well, Jennifer, thank you so, so much. This was an awesome interview. I’m super excited that we could get you on and get a lot of questions in. Likewise.
Jen Doskow: Awesome. Thank you so much, Ryan. Take care.